When I discovered that the pope agreed with all of my theology and teaching I had discovered in the Bible, I felt it better that I go with the group For a while I tried to pay close attention to see if White really was being misunderstood, or if his opponents were unjustifiably touchy. I have noticed that White has been especially hysterical about the Beckwith situation. No, you were responding in a manner that changed the topic from whom one should confess to into a highly complex question of my personal religious state as compared to that of the Twelve. That is what anti-catholic is, you know. Most Tuesday Mornings at As francis03 pointed out, Whites arguments have been raised (and better presented) by dozens of other Protestants with better qualifications, so why bother with White, unless it is for the sake of a personal issue that White himself claims we should disregard? And then were gonna to Francis Beckwith! 1. Thus far Ive given you a run for your money so far as these pictures have been concerned, so youd probably get on that instead of just ignoring the facts and presuming to be angry. He is a moron not of necessity (for that would not be something to be held against him), but rather a moron of convenience. or accept the harsh criticism. Eldad and Modad Given that this wasnt what I said, I dont care about your opinion of it. Alpha omega tattoos are commonly sported by men, but that does not mean women cannot get these tattoos. Funny. As for my depth of study in church history (including the Father), I consider it sufficient to justify the statements I am making. /matthewsermonoutlines/Matthew662004.pdf+romans+ In a rare morning Dividing Line we covered Andy Stanleys claim that the Bible is not a sufficient starting place for faith in the modern world. You may think that I am misguided, but that is what I truly believe. The Question is, can they do anything about it? Just what is it about certain combinations of notes that make us feel sad, where others make us feel happy? Just dont read his blog and you wont be upset ;). And Ill forgive you and Jimmy and anyone else nonetheless. There is no reason to believe that an alpha omega tattoo cannot incorporate both the philosophical and religious essence of the symbols. So, what was your point? the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. There is nothing more Lamech I ask You Father to comfort my brother Theo, as he enters Your Courts trembling and contrite. Further, most laws we know of in advocacy and argumentation is made-up; yet, that doesnt mean they do not apply. . CareBear: If you look through Jimmys comboxes, youll see not infrequent apologies and admissions of error or wrongdoing from Jimmys readers (yours truly included). 2. the mindset that occasioned those abuses That is a matter of historical fact. Name Server: Oh, and I see White has followed the template over at his blog: (1) stir up trouble with a bonehead statement; (2) act the victim when called on it; (3) change the subject by proffering some hobbyhorse topic/argument; (4) shake his head sadly while professing his allegiance to the Gospel [sic] and noting his opponents assumed allergy to the same; and (5) claim victory, after noting throughout, sotto voce, his obvious merits. 3. call me Fox like Esau has. Grace and peace be upon each of you here and upon Jimmy Akin, James White, and Francis Beckwith. The Visions of Iddo the Seer Heres what is rational. While the video lost some of the early audio portion, the Sermon Audio version is whole. It would strain credibility to brag on one hand how your faith does not require membership in a given church or denomination (or non-denomination as they are called nowadays) and then come up with a definite list of denominations where your future children would not be saved, should they be raised there. Although not quite as fast as calling yourself Thomas Aquinas or is that the name your Mama gave you. I mean, whos to say that the Catholic Church might not have made a mistake in rejecting all those books that they threw out in deciding the Canon of the New Testament??? Again, this is flawed because it was constructed on from the basic assumption that the Canon in totality necessarily flows from the creation of scripture, and was not previously known infallibly before. Your attempt to call into question their value as an educational institution is pathetic and sad. Same goes for the generally less intense venom seen to some degree on both sides of the debate on this thread, except that I dont pretend to forgive offences that were commited against someone else not me, I just hope they come to repentance (were probably just talking venial sin here but it is still important). Repentance is essential in Maybe it was from the rioting about the cartoons. Adam Mary Margaret, to the extent I understand you, I think I may agree with you. I think his stupidity is a defense against the Truth that is the Roman Catholic Church. The Apostles were empowered by our Saviour to forgive sins Theres an old zinger about the alleged slippery thinking of the Jesuits: Organizations that do that are not functionally Christian; they have denied the faith, have denied Christ Himself. I follow, specifically, the successor of Peter, because Christ gave to Peter (and only to Peter) the keys of the Kingdom, and promised that the gates of Hell should not prevail against Christs Church. No one should reward this playground-level discourse. A more important question, from my perspective, is when do you give up? Tawhid or Trinity: Is God One or Three Divine Persons? Mary, Registrant FAX: 2. Biting again imputed God does all the winning. How do you read it? (You all know this from Most deep thinking Protestants come to this issue eventually and their continued Protest depends entirely upon Sola Scriptura. I have heard James White in debate also and he has always stuck to the task at hand and done so, in a Christ like manner. That after I twice said that if you have questions, just ask them. As far as any of us know, youre a college student with a very basic understanding of the applications of symbolic logic. You are wrong. It also doesnt say we have to forgive one who does not repent. I apologize for my mischaracterization then and my ignoring of your request for a summarization. Which is correct, and to what authority shall we go for the correct interpretation? Therefore: peace. good nite all. youd have to find a more substantive angle of attack Everyone has a filter. The fact heand his fansare incapable of acknowledging any moral or factual error in dealing with Catholics is why were still at it four days later. The Wisdom of Solomon Go figure. Yes, other than to say it was done so as to forward from jamesrwhite.org to catholic.com. the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works. If anything, you are actually guilty of the fallacy of neglected evidence as you have failed to consider (to the extent of even overlooking) evidence that is likely to be relevant to the argument here such as elements in the debate itself between White v. Beckwith. And well you might. Registrant Email:whois-protected2@mapname.com And if he truly looks down on folks who would defend an Internet Apologist, what of the fact that he is defending James White, who is also an Internet Apologist by the same virtue? The last refuge of the scoundrel who offends is hey, it was just a joke. examine the logical dependencies. In the very claiming of oneself a mystic, the cynical paganism of the day would interpret it as unholy pride and therefore the proclaiming would discredit the claim. How many photos of mob scenes like the ones White doctored depict mobs of authoritarian Catholics? Donald Casadonte Possibly you are a Latter- day Saint who believes the priesthood was restored by Joseph Smith in 1829 and that you have been ordained as an Aaronic priest. But one of the problems with being a mystic is that you cannot really go around telling people you are an amateur mystic like you can tell people you are a professional or amateur apologist. Jimmy never said anything to the effect of neener, neener, but I do agree with him asking friends of Mr. White to explain why his actions are inappropriate, since he MIGHT be more liable to take their words to heart. Actually, CB, thanks to your shining example we dont have to. You cant even read yourself correctly, CB. But all well get to know is from what you tell us, and how you tell it. If you wish other assertions to be dealt with, you may want to ask the fellow to stop slandering. I have a question Matthew, if the Catholic church is salvation through Christ, why must one confess to a Catholic priest to recieve absolution? I have a question Matthew, if the Catholic church is salvation through Christ, why must one confess to a Catholic priest to recieve absolution? (And of course by that I mean owning up to one.) With fearful knowledge that Jesus our Lord shall judge my poor imitation of Christ in this and all my doings, I nevertheless remain your servant and brother in Christ, God used the blood of many martyrs to give you a bath you desperately needed. . Actually, Matthew, your comment doesnt hold much water. I should have spoken more carefully. But sin is a reproach to any people, nation. Finally I see now the ruse!!! If you believe that, go re-read this thread. Not. Should I call you Doctor? That cost a good deal more than this little stunt. Who are you replying to? While you believe that they would have taken to transubstantiation, I believe that they would have believed in Sola Scriptura. A Methodist who thinks that James White needs his mouth and especially his mind, washed out with soap. Why is that offensive and JWs picture Just funnin . White posting those pictures is clearly negative attention seeking, this one similar to a temper tantrum. Thank you for the defense, Esau I spent the weekend with my folks, and didnt even see Aristotillean comment. Covered a bunch of topics suggested by social media interactions, including a discussion of special and general revelation, natural theology, and all that area of discussion, and then a brief look at Thomistic inseparable operations and its (unnecessary) complication of the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. He is a professor, having taught Greek, New Testament Textual Criticism, Church history, and various topics in the field of apologetics. Ah well. He has participated in outreach to various religious organizations nationwide and has even engaged in public debate against Atheism. I wasnt replying to him. Ahhh sooooo. This was implied in the paraphrase of the Westminster Shorter Catechism, where Gods revelation is understood to be contained in full in the Old and New Testament. Say what you like but JW is an amazing man. We, depending of context and abilities/gifts, use the appropriate skills, for the task at hand. Unfortunately, Jimmy Akin insisted on focusing on these issues and misdirect people way from the theological issues. Shut em down now, Jimmy. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 13, 2007 4:28:08 PM They in turn necessitate each other from Gods frame of reference. Can someone point me to it, because surely you all dont hold a double standard around here In simple words, Dr. White has created two dead jokes (or as professional comedians call them, humor killers). It cries out for a Caliph or a Pope or a Poll-Driven Ministry, whatever will work. (your post, not the URL, before a troll jumps on this). Also, I am thinking of the debate White had with that Muslim Abdul Malik, both cordialin fact there isnt a debate I can rthink of(of course havent seen/heard them all) where white hasnt been a true Christian gentleman. Do you presume I disagree with the main point of his argument? Prove his actions offensive and Ill recant. 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. Its amazing what having people around does for how one acts. You probably think this post is about you Late have you come in this debate that has raged over the past decade or so. Given that you are willing to offer an opinion on the call when you dont recall it by your own admission, it seems that you also have a habit of offering opinions without checking the facts. However, no matter how infallible God is, us men are fallible. Which is why he remains so popular, it seems! However, I didnt wish to anger anyoneI see this entire thing as a joke, but I realize others obviously dont. So, in the interest of being extremely clear and explicit: I assume that the Westminster Catechism and its related system of beliefs is true, therefore in my argument revelation is not defined by me, but by the Protestant Churches who uphold said Catechism. Jesus himself existed outside of timethe Holy Trinity was not established 2000 years ago after all Jesus himself said that before Abraham I am. Does the New Testament Teach that Peter was the First Pope? Do you have any clue how petty this makes you sound? Stubblepark, Is Homosexuality Compatible with Authentic Christianity? Joe: Bob, youre a S***head M********** and so is your mother! . Whites assertions destroy his own position. I didnt accuse anyone of anything. Why did I choose to follow the pope? He was also a critical consultant for the Lockman Foundation's New American Standard Bible. because the Bible told me to. Thats the Old Covenant. CareBear, HAHA!!!! The Eucharist, Sola Scriptura and Tradition, Proclaiming the Gospel of Grace in Salt Lake. We deserve the ridicule of White like good children deserve cake. The Vision of Isaiah Dont blame me if/when that night comes, when suddenly you SEE the church, her doctrine, her Glory, her history and enter the Church kicking and screaming (not really, but definitely the journey starts reluctantly) and filled with peace and joy as you sacrifice the opinion of family and friends to Fully take part in the supper of the Lamb. I didnt see that Mary posted just above. This fellow painted Dr. White an islamic fundamentalist before Dr. White ever made the pictures in question. But in two thousand years of history my denomination, as a denomination, has never killed anyone. Thus I wanted to lay out some of my thoughts briefly. Theo. Its not conditional. Double standards? But they dont make it easier for those on the other side to get across. I fully deny that we would wish to chop off his head. What is the man afraid of? alleges that critics of Lordship Salvation don't believe repentance is necessary for salvation. Even as David also describeth Please correct my misunderstandings of this argument. I hope somebody picks his marbles off the floor before he slips on them. apostate religious leaders who support the new We have improved your image to the point you really think that you would handle things differently than your medieval forebears. I am not necessarily sticking up for this kind of behavior(in terms of the pictures) but everyone is human and give the guy a break. Wrong again. Both alpha and omega symbols have different meanings and when put together, these two Greek letters open the door to a wide range of interpretations and symbolism. Jimmy asked for a discussion of the pictures and I, for one, have done so, however cursory. If you are in a church that uses multiple Bible versions, get out of It is DECEPTION! Soon as White says Look, Im sorry Ill be cool with im. Honestly. Since Mr White is apparently reading everything with his name on it, & since he has no combox (probably a wise move, considering what I feel like posting there): OK, Lisa. In other words, I have a list of books I say was divinely inspired. When one happens upon a URL that leads direcrtly to Catholic Answers, what is one to assume? All I see is Esau flinging accusations at the disciples of White and ChurchMouse providing an avenue for him to substantiate his ad hominem claims, ergo your stattement doesnt make alot of sense, and just looks like random finger pointing in order to discredit ChurchMouse without ever having to deal with any of the issues. Putting aside the merits of an important debate, its telling that Dr. Geisler also expresses dismay with Whites tone. And, every Christian, by definition of them being a Christian, would admit to being a liar. I believe that makes you my sibling. Now, given what Foxfire was alluding to in the other thread, I can see that it is more than likely that the White disciples were responsible for this deception: *grin*. The debate Mr Akin says is now over never started because he refuses to debate Dr White in any substantive manner and has for some time. In the beginning, was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. For example, one may be saved as a Baptist, but not as a Bahai (spelling error wantonly ignored) because the religion denies the divinity of Christ. It was quite the horrendous act and I pray White comes to see that and to repent, for his own spiritual wellbeing. Whether or not we have a responsibility to forgive someone who has not repented, I think we should still forgive them in the sense of wishing them well and seeking no revenge. refusals by his opponents to address his unassailable points. Absolutely. But I have read a lot more of White than I have of you, and I understand the Calvinist mind because I have one. Whatever you call it, Jimmy is apparently comfortable allowing it, and James apparently isnt. - You accuse Catholic Answers for the url 1. There seems to be alot of talking past each other and just general crankiness. Simply Amazing. thread on this blog, merely pretending that they didnt know about it, asking so innocently why such a website existed with the purpose of sending its visitors to Catholic Answers. for we also forgive EVERYONE who sins against us. Could pro-lifers feel outrage if their call to charity to the unborn was portrayed as murderous invective? 1,157 were here. Maccabees (IV) Talked about more than that, but it was a major portion of my thinking as I started off with Jordan Petersons announcement that the tyrants in charge of psychology in Canada want to send him off to a training camp to punish him for wrong-think. White characterizes them as representative of all Catholics while failing to live up to the same standards of decency for what are undoubtedly his own actions. Either you believe what the Bible says, or you do not. We are to forgive not just 7 timesremember those words? To which we must ask the same question, How do we know this to be Authoritatively True?, which leads us back to 1). What horrors are you referring to? nothing wrong with that That some people behave badly is not a reflection on Christianity or Catholicism itself. I pretty much agree with My Cats Name is Lily (maybe Methodist minds think alike?when did that start?). I believe in a rational God. Sorry, Im not dead set on assuming the conclusion that they were wrong when I dont find them wrong in the first place. Jesus answer separated the two concepts, much to the benefit of lost humanity. Hey, Nonny, use a name, would you? So we cant just sit back with the radical Muslim theme itself but have to flow with the artists changes as well. We are now praying for your conversion to the fullness of the faith. I know your heart is in the right place, but why to you feed the trolls? So you should be thankful for the checks-and-balances provided by those of us outside your walls. Funny Your username is new to me. Designs like this look very chic and are most commonly opted for by women. There seems to already be plenty of paper flying between the two feuders. Are you a disciple? Your original claim was that the Apostles were empowered. Alpha and Omega Ministries No, that belongs to the one who thinks Germans are a race. Contact. And, as he is becoming more stupid, I can only imagine it as a sign that he is moving closer to Rome I dont think Id claim victory however. Actually, the fellow may have been right, I mean not in the actual analogy but i did notice that Dr. White said he has been studying Islam and arabic maybe he really is an islamic fundementalist! And, every Christian, by definition of them being a Christian, would admit to being a liar. ya know true faith is alway accompanied by works. Example one listed above. At best, Mr. White can say that the Canon is secondary to the primary quantity of Scripture, much like Gasoline is to a Car, but anyone whos versed in logic can tell you that secondary does not denote lesser. I think you should read his book The Roman Catholic Controversy and see what Dr. White has to say concerning the development of doctrine. Beyond that, its a game. Then of course you have the Protestant disdain of the material; irrational and unbiblical though it may be. . AOMIN App Probably the same way the Romanists decided. Youre again committing that same category error. 2023 Alpha and Omega Ministries. . Then again, maybe not surprising. 1. I do not know how to succeed in telling you that the path you are on does lead to something horrible. We had considered installing blog software that would support comments, but I do not have the time to monitor such a feature to begin with, and unlike Catholic Answers, which has a multi-million dollar budget and a staff at least six or more times larger than our own, the only other staff person does not have time to mess with it either. How much of early Church history and/or Church Fathers have you read? 1. What is so important about the pictures that they just cannot be taken down? Writing this response again reminded me that many of your statements simply do not pass the logic test nor debate skills, an observation that several here have made. Dont talk to me about his theological positions or his possible lack of charity in other areas. Poor imitator of Our Lord that I am, I remain your servant and brother in Christ, White, presumably, thinks that forensic justification extends to doctorates and humor as well, as if merely declaring them so is the same as making them so. Jeff is a World Champion martial artist with 5 Black-Belts. Stop twisting things. Love Jesus and His word. I fully expect him to start into depends on your interpretation at any time now. People are acting like all that was said what the trent comment. Question: if the Bible is 100% Gods Word (as I believe as well), why do we talk about Paul, Peter, Matthew, etc. Lets just say certain quarters will be talking after this program! Both images are were created in humor, with the intent of adding some needed levity to the discussion and to point out the similarities between those who call Islam a religion of peace while demanding beheadings and the hypocrisy of those demanding charity in the Beckwith discussion while using the kind of ad hom seen here and the CA boards (as well as the silliness of registering jamesrwhite.org for the CA site.). For the most popular and easy proof is by parallel; and here there is no parallel. You cant go to the individual books of the bible to determine just which books are authentically inspired and can be deemed as Scripture. Although, given the most recent burst of childishness, Im starting to think that its more likely than I thought. Salvation also support the corrupt modern Bible versions. It is despicable. What in the world does that have to do with anything, other than you assume Divine insufficiency? Spent a lot of time considering the death of Joseph Ratzinger, Benedict XVI, and what light it has shone on how most Protestants today understand the Papacy. Duh, thats already been covered in this very thread. CatholicWayne: In this very thread, I see people getting into the same old debates about sola scriptura etc, saying nothing new. I mean if you look at whites newest post he has a picture of a troll on in it! Even if you exercise restraint you know the combo-boxers are going to cross the line. Hence human testimony concerning inspiration is based, at best, on the testimony of one person who is, naturally speaking, an interested party in the matter concerning which he testifies It is true that miracles and prophecy may, at times, confirm such human testimony as to the inspiration of a work. According to you, Carebear was proclaiming someones innocence. Thats nice. So I was finishing up my 21st conference at Covenant of Grace Church in St. Charles when I heard people talking about the coming storm. So I started looking at the weather and my travel plans. I was under the impression that White would attempt to score a cheap victory without dealing with the substantive issues, which he did. Just who are you accusing here???? Prove his actions offensive and Ill recant. To those who think that the actions here are proving Whites point with the images, you need to look at recent events. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 10:09:37 PM. I havent read the book by Dr. White. Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED Mainly focused upon the question of where Reformed Baptists will go in 2023 when it comes to the Neo-Thomist Revival, prompted by comments on line regarding Thomas, Van Til, and Bahnsen. Mary Kay: He uses hyperbolic language to suggest the Council of Trent really doesnt anathematize Protestants (even though it was written in direct response to the reforms of Luther and others) and seems to be intent on playing the lets all just get along mantra. Late have you come in this debate that has raged over the past decade or so. Sponsoring Registrar:Directi Internet Solutions d/b/a PublicDomainRegistry.Com (R27-LROR) How could you! Well, lets seeby awarding him a casuistry degree, you are accusing him of specious reasoning. [16], White is a Baptist[1] and a Calvinist. Do you judge a book by its cover? Is everything in Foxes book of martyrs a mere fabrication? Guys, Sandys our Gnostic Troll, not a sincere Bible Christian. His arguments appear as a patter of weak hands against the door of the Church, not sure if they are thrusting away or bidding entrance. 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